Tarts

[ladyofastolat]

Prompted by a question on Sporcle: (Yup, still addicted.)

What's the difference between a pie and a tart? My Dad (Scottish) says that it doesn't matter how big it is or whether it has a lid or not; if it's sweet it's a tart and if it's savoury it's a pie. He has mince tarts at Christmas. My Mum (English) says that it doesn't matter how big it is or what the filling is; if it has a pastry lid it's a pie, and if it's open it's a tart. She sometimes has mince pies at Christmas and sometimes has mince tarts, depending on whether they're lidless or not. I've ended up bilingual in the tart department, and call covered savoury things pies and open sweet things tarts (unless they're Bakewell puddings) but it all falls apart in the middle.

And how do flans fit in?

EDIT: Having already established that there are regional variations, I'm not trying to find the One True Definition, but I'm interested in hearing opinions.

EDIT 2: More thoughts. Lots of pubs serve "pies" that are bowls of stew with some pastry floating on top. Is this really a pie?

Secondly, some places offer "tarlets." How small does a tart have to be before it's a tartlet? Should there be an international standard measure?

Thirdly, if a tart is a lidless pie, I see Tolkien-related puns ahead. I need to make some more pie banners this year, to include "Sell me pies, sell me sweet little pies," and to advertise the price list (pie-rates, though it's a shame the Bar Of The Thousand Pies isn't in Penzance) so I think some sort of lidless pie will be added to the list.

EDIT 3: Nothing to do with pies at all, but another word meaning question. What sort of a person has a stronghold? The news is talking about "the rebels' stronghold" in Libya. I think only rebels and villains have strongholds; Good King Fluffy and his happy men wouldn't have one. Only Dark Lords have fastnesses and only villains have lairs, but everyone can have a base or an HQ. "I retire to my base, you retreat to your stronghold, he skulks in his lair."

Comments

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

Is a turnover just a sweet pasty, or are they different? *muses* I'm assuming a pasty is defined by being made by a single piece of pastry folded around its filling, and sealed with a single seam. Is this correct, I wonder? (Googling spoils the game, so I'm not doing it.)

Having made loads of Pie Banners, I feel I should find this Emperor of Piedom and offer him my services. I wonder if he has hideous wars with the neighouring Sultan of Stew.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

I believe the international community is trying to keep them apart by establishing a buffet zone.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

It's traditional to respond "*groan*" at puns like this, but a more truthful response would be "LOL!" What a lovely image this is. I'm imagining buffet tables set up in the Debatable Land, with fierce border reivers pausing in their reiving to delicately nibble tuna vol-au-vents.

[bunn.livejournal.com]

I think a turnover lacks the thick crimped seam of a pasty, and is made of flaky pastry.

I've seen apple and black currant flavour pasties in some pasty shops, and I've also had a beef pasty made with an apple filling at one end: the idea being you are supposed to eat from the savory end to the sweet end, so the pasty is an entire meal including the pud.

Rather in the spirit of this entire post, I have just made some scones in muffin cases. I'm not entirely sure that the results are Right.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

I'm wondering if bakers in Cornwall have a permanent +5 to their Pasty Bluff Roll, which means that they can make pretty much anything they like and declare it to be a pasty, or if they're bound by narrow Cornish expectations of Cornish Pastyness, which means that they're less free to be daring.

Muffins are a whole new complicated kettle of fish, (though perhaps not literally.) As are scones, though only in the matter of pronunciation. (I say Scoan. Many people seem to take extraordinary offence at this.)

Food is Complicated.

[philmophlegm.livejournal.com]

Of course they're now legally bound by narrow definitions of Cornish Pastyness. This covers where the crimp is (side rather than top, which is controversial) and the type of meat (which very controversially can include minced beef instead of steak).

I pronounce scone as 'scoan' too. Not sure why. My mum does too, but my dad uses the more popular 'sconn'.