Tarts

[ladyofastolat]

Prompted by a question on Sporcle: (Yup, still addicted.)

What's the difference between a pie and a tart? My Dad (Scottish) says that it doesn't matter how big it is or whether it has a lid or not; if it's sweet it's a tart and if it's savoury it's a pie. He has mince tarts at Christmas. My Mum (English) says that it doesn't matter how big it is or what the filling is; if it has a pastry lid it's a pie, and if it's open it's a tart. She sometimes has mince pies at Christmas and sometimes has mince tarts, depending on whether they're lidless or not. I've ended up bilingual in the tart department, and call covered savoury things pies and open sweet things tarts (unless they're Bakewell puddings) but it all falls apart in the middle.

And how do flans fit in?

EDIT: Having already established that there are regional variations, I'm not trying to find the One True Definition, but I'm interested in hearing opinions.

EDIT 2: More thoughts. Lots of pubs serve "pies" that are bowls of stew with some pastry floating on top. Is this really a pie?

Secondly, some places offer "tarlets." How small does a tart have to be before it's a tartlet? Should there be an international standard measure?

Thirdly, if a tart is a lidless pie, I see Tolkien-related puns ahead. I need to make some more pie banners this year, to include "Sell me pies, sell me sweet little pies," and to advertise the price list (pie-rates, though it's a shame the Bar Of The Thousand Pies isn't in Penzance) so I think some sort of lidless pie will be added to the list.

EDIT 3: Nothing to do with pies at all, but another word meaning question. What sort of a person has a stronghold? The news is talking about "the rebels' stronghold" in Libya. I think only rebels and villains have strongholds; Good King Fluffy and his happy men wouldn't have one. Only Dark Lords have fastnesses and only villains have lairs, but everyone can have a base or an HQ. "I retire to my base, you retreat to your stronghold, he skulks in his lair."

Comments

[lil-shepherd.livejournal.com]

I'm with your mum too - but I think that 'tarts' are sweet and open, and 'flans' are savoury and open, and pies, whether sweet or savoury, always have a lid.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

Interesting. phoebesmum is of the opinion that flans are always sweet. I think I have two very different images in my head when I hear the word "flan": something quiche-like, and something sweet and fruity in a sponge base.

Though I did once play some silly console game about international cooking, in which the representative dish of England was called "flan," and looked something rather like creme caramel.

[sally_maria]

Creme caramel being called "flan" is a Spanish thing, I think - or possibly even a Latin American one.

I'm another one for whom flan is always a fruit thing... quiche is quiche and something different again.

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

Spanish, I think.