Puddings?

[ladyofastolat]

Someone at work lent me a bizarre Wii game called Cooking Mama, in which you have to "cook" various world dishes. The game is very clearly Japanese. The first example of national British cuisine is something unhelpfully called a generic "pudding", and it consists of egg, milk, sugar, grand marnier and vanilla. It's put in small pots, then tipped out into a plate, where it keeps its shape, and is yellow, with a brown top. What on earth is this supposed to be? The second British dish is "cream puffs", which, if I remember correctly through the slightly alcoholic haze of last night, contain salt.

As you play, "cooking mama", in a very strong Japanese accent, tells you how you've done. When you do well, she says something that sounds like "good dog." If you do pathetically, she says "don't mind." Your final ratings are either "very good", "good" or "try hard." I like "try hard" as another way of saying "you're hopeless" and plan to use it.

I'm at work today, getting driven mad by the constant beeping of the events team's answer phone. Grr! Still, I've taken Monday as leave, so after today, don't need to be at work until January 2nd. Yay! We're off to The Mainland tomorrow, so if I don't post again, I hope everyone has a lovely Christmas / winter festival of their choice.

Comments

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

I say "couch" (never "sofa" or "settee") but have never, to my knowledge, appeared in a Courts advert. ;-) I'd say "sitting room" or "living room". Looking at the list, I say slightly more U things than non-U things. I do say "pardon," though. It was drilled into me at school that "what?" was rude, and we were taught to say "pardon?" if we wanted something repeated. Similarly with "toilet" instead of "loo." Presumably I had a non-U teacher.

[jane-somebody.livejournal.com]

Really? Gosh. I've never consciously heard you say 'couch', and I would have sworn I didn't know anyone who actually said it in normal conversation. I can only imagine that because the impression of it in my head is so irredemably poncy, whereas my friends obviously are not, I have a filter which preserves my own internal world-view, however flawed, in the face of reality ;-) Which is very telling! (I think this is supposed to be a compliment to you, by the way, rather than an insult...)

I did have teachers who tried to persuade me to say "toilet" and "pardon", but was bolshy enough to ignore them ;-) In fact I had a rather traumatic experience at first school with a teacher who wouldn't let me go when I asked to go to the loo, and then seemed to think I was taking the mickey (I nearly wrote something else there which would have been an unfortunate pun) when I corrected myself to "lavatory".

[jane-somebody.livejournal.com]

Or of course American. Couch, I mean. I think of 'couch' as the generic American word for sofa; I don't know whether that's an accurate perception, though. My idea of US/UK usage differences is a bit of a hit-and-miss affair.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

Mulder's couch had a large role in X-Files fanon, and, yes, it was always called a "couch" by American fans, so I assume from that that it's the usual American word. I did pick up quite a few American expressions at that time, since I was working so hard to ensure that my American characters sounded properly American, that quite a few of the expressions crept into my own spoken vocabulary. However, I'm 99.9 percent sure that "couch" wasn't one of them. My parents, I'm almost entirely sure, also call it a "couch".

I find it interesting how so many of our word choices are not conscious choices at all, but are just a case of us using the word our parents used back when we were two, and leaning our vocabulary. I guess that's the whole point of the U / non-U thing. You can acquire money and aim to mix in posh circles, but you can't shake off those unconscious vocabulary markers that brand you as being not properly posh.

[jane-somebody.livejournal.com]

I find it interesting how so many of our word choices are not conscious choices at all, but are just a case of us using the word our parents used back when we were two, and leaning our vocabulary.

Heh, I guess that's prince_eldarion already doomed, then. Although having said that, I've noticed that actually Skordh has more of a tendency to use words from the non-U list [aside: I am quite annoyed about this, as it undermines my quite determined argument that he is posher than me], so El has been presented with both U and non-U words fairly equally. I expect, given this background, and the fact he goes to nursery where it seems far more common (er, as in 'usual') to say eg. toilet, he'll likely come out more non-U on balance. Oddly enough, I find myself slightly minding this, not (I sincerely trust) because of the U/non-U thing which I wasn't previously aware of, but because I find I am quite defensively attached to what I feel are the 'right' words, and somehow seem tied to loyalty to the parents and grandparents who taught them to me.

Gosh, this is all fascinating. I have always thought that about language, and the way language/words change and shift over time etc, but this adds an extra dimension of language choice, conscious or unconscious, to think about. Given how interesting I am finding this discussion, I think maybe I really should read that Watching the English book, which already sounded interesting from what you have previously said. Or, maybe I should *not*, given the potential risk of ending up in the slightly uncomfortable position of scrutinising *all* aspects of my own and others' behaviour, rather than merely speech, as I have found myself doing over the last couple of weeks...

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

I'd love to read an updated version of the U/non-U thing. I've been reading quite a few books on language and how it evolves, and it's very clear that a word can go from "despised, only used by the ignorant masses" to "correct form" very quickly - and vice versa. I do wonder how many of the classic U words are still U. Could the publication of a book about it actually drive the change? - i.e. aspiring "non-U" people deliberately start using the "U" words, so the "properly U" people start not using them?

I'm always amazed at how attached people (including me) get to the "right" words. The sheer vitriol that a lot of people attach to "Americanisms." I read certain American usages and everything emotional in me cries out "This is wrong!" I have to consciously tell myself that this is, in fact, right in America (and, in some cases, was considered right over here four hundred years ago, too.)

You're right about Watching the English. Since you're finding this so interesting, I'm sure you'll love it. It will, however, cause you to look at everything you and others do in a different light.

[jane-somebody.livejournal.com]

Yes, I'd like to see a proper update, too. The wikipedia entry, which is all I've read, claims that while very few people today still eg. looking-glass, the majority of differences are still useful as curent social markers. I'd like to see research/proof of that - your theory about shifts over time always sounded more likely to me. Actually, if anything, I might guess that the aristocracy on the whole, being relatively small, inbreeding, and secure in social position (generalisations, of course) might retain the same word use as generations ago, but that the general mass of non-aristocracy would see considerable change - and probably with more Americanisms creeping in to, to bring another thread in.

I have to consciously tell myself that this is, in fact, right in America (and, in some cases, was considered right over here four hundred years ago, too.) I suppose 'gotten' is the prime example there.

If I could draw, one day I would get round to doing some pages from my imaginary UK-US picture dictionary, including such pictures as what a Brit would visualise for a man going out wearing vest and suspenders, and for balance, what an American would visualise for a man going out wearing a jumper. Hmmn, I might have to have a go at those anyway.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

I once did a silly quiz for someone at work - an American who'd lived in Britain for ten years. "Are you British or American?" the quiz asked. I then set up scenarios, like "Your boss comes into work wearing a vest and suspenders. How do you react?" and "Your child's teacher asks them if they need a rubber. Are you outraged?"

By the way, re. the reply I've just posted: It's probably a good idea for you to remind me about Watching the English nearer the time of the banquet.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

Meant to add: If you do decide to give Watching the English a try, I can of course lend you our copy. I can bring it to the Taruithorn banquet, if you want.

[jane-somebody.livejournal.com]

Thank you very much! I'd like to take you up on that offer, please ;-) Presumably returning it at Wightfrag will be acceptable?

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

Sure!

Talking about books, didn't I lend you a pair of books a while ago. I can't for the life of me remember the titles or the author. The first was a paperback, and the second a hardback. Fantasy novels. Spoiled brat of a main character. Very nice best friend. Kinda slashy in parts. The first book was called, I think, "The____" (name of the hereditary magic that the main character wielded.) Author is David something? I'm not nagging - I just want to make sure that I'm not imagining this. :-)

[jane-somebody.livejournal.com]

Good heavens, so you did! The Still, by David Feintuch (sp?) plus sequel. I'd quite forgotten, sorry ;-( They're around, er, somewhere...

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

No problem! I'd kind of forgotten myself, until I was tidying my bookshelves and came across the batch of slashy fantasy I'd bought a couple of years ago, and remembered them. There's no hurry!