Oxford and Robin Hood

[ladyofastolat]

(...which, boringly, are two unrelated topics.)

Day off today, since I'm working on Saturday and Sunday, and, for some strange reason, didn't fancy working 12 days without a break. I can't really afford today off, since I have a tonne of things to get ready for the weekend, but, hey... Why on earth does Family Learning Week, Children's Book Week, Bookstart Day, and Family-friendly libraries day all happen in the same week?

Anyway...



Yesterday was a bit of an Oxfordy day. A conversation at work made me realise that I've not actually gone to Oxford for 3 or 4 years. We really must spend a day or two there soon. I also realised that, in all the five years I spent there, I never went to any Oxford museum, except for the Ashmolean. This is very shocking. I must go to the Pitt-Rivers museum, even if nothing else.

Then, after dinner, I stumbled on a TV programme about Oxford architecture, presented by the most annoying sneery man imaginable. Although he was talking about buildings, he made a point of detouring into the Eagle and Child just so he could sneer about Tolkien and CS Lewis. It was "ghastly", he said, to imagine Tolkien and Lewis talking about the drivel that was their books, and enough to put one of your pint. He also sneered at lots of Colleges on the grounds that frivolous people like Hugh Grant went to them. He even sneered mightily at half the buildings. He derided the Sheldonian, despite the valiant attempt of Allan Chapman (our senior member in History Alive) to be enthusiastic and positive about it. Nasty man. I hate this habit the media has of sneering at anything and everything.

Then, in the evening, I got a phone call from Merton. I vaguely remember them writing to me a few weeks ago to warn me that I was going to get a phone call from a bright and keen young student. Of course, the phone call was just to get money. I've been donating to Merton by direct debit for three years, and it needed renewing, so they were just trying to ensure that I carried on. But she started by interrogating me about my career, about what I did in Oxford - what activities I did, how I socialised. "Outside Merton, mostly," I told her, so she interrogated me about what societies I was in, and so on. It made me feel quite uncomfortable, and a bit patronised. I expect she had a script - "remember to pretend to be interested in their lives before asking them for money." I didn't like it.



I'm very much in two minds about the new Robin Hood. Part of me is looking forward to it very much. This is the part of me that looks at pictures of Guy of Gisbourne, and others, and turns into a shallow, swoony girlie. But the other part of me looks at the ridiculous costumes, knitted armour and stupid weapons, and wants to run a mile. It's worse than the worst of the 1950s swashbucklers. It's clear from the pictures that they've not remotely tried to be historically accurate. The costumes are modern casual with a faintly fantasy-medieval theme.

But, then, Robin Hood isn't history, but folk tale. Folk tales, like folk songs, exist to be interpreted differently by each teller. When Chretien de Troyes did his Arthurian stories, no-one wrote angry letters into the Troubadour Times about the historical accuracy. Older stories were automatically updated and cast in the clothes of the day, reflecting the values of the day. So an entirely modern Robin Hood would be entirely in keeping with the folk tradition.

But, yet, this Robin Hood version is set at a clear time in history. Richard I is away on Crusade. Robin Hood (according to the Radio Times) has just returned from Crusades. So they're taking it out of the realm of folk tale and into history. I think this means that requires them to take more effort at historical accuracy than if they were setting it in a vague medieval never-never land of folklore.

But, then, I love "A Knight's Tale", and that takes huge liberties with history, too...

*is torn*

Ah well. Maybe I should wait until it's been shown before agonising over whether to like it or not.

And, talking TV, when is Torchwood starting?

Comments

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

I watched the Oxford architecture programme too. What a narrow-minded man Gavin Stamp is. Still, he's a media don and that kind of performance makes easy television. There were a few brief detours into St John's but when he came to discuss Canterbury Quad I don't think he actually said where it was.

I have yet to be patronized by anyone from St John's, although they do have an alumni operation now. I'm more likely to donate to the History Faculty at the moment than my college, I have to say, but that's because my Oxford experience has been longer (is indeed still ongoing in a patchy way) and I know which of the two needs the money more.

I've seen the Robin Hood trailer with Jonas Armstrong speaking in character, and I wasn't greatly taken by his performance or the uber-cool characterization - everything I find irritating about David Tennant's Doctor magnified. I hope that my reaction won't be to alacritously put on a Robin of Sherwood episode.

Torchwood is in pre-teaser stage, with occasional floating 'T's fizzing and crackling between programmes on BBC channels for a couple of seconds. Press launch next week; debut rumoured to be either 21 or 28 October.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

I missed the start of the Oxford thing, and only switched on when he was doing New College, so I don't know if he sneered at Merton, too. I very much dislike TV presenters who pass off their own subjective opinions as fact. I like presenters who are experts in their fields, but not when they sneer at anyone and everything that doesn't match their own narrow definition of what is worthy.

How do I donate to the History Faculty? If they're in need of it, I'll happily donate.

Oh dear... I hope Robin Hood isn't like David Tennant's Doctor. While I enjoyed the episodes in the last season of Doctor Who, I always wanted to slap the silly grin off his face whenever he appeared.

Thanks for the Torchwood info. I'm looking forward to that one. It's pure Captain Jack shallowness, I'm afraid.

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

He didn't sneer at Merton, as I recall, but praised it as the 'first Oxford college' (skordh? Neuromancer?) and discussed the innovation that was Mob Quad.

Do the Faculty send you 'The Oxford Historian'? I think that there were details about donating there; but I left my last copy in the office, I think, perhaps as a slight to them for making me redundant (though it wasn't their fault, but the Fell Press's, and their decision that TGW should be governed by market forces). The History Faculty alumni website doesn't have 'The Oxford Historian' online, though it thinks it does.

You'd appreciate the following, from a mock-up of a Personals page on the back of the latest issue of the Canadian Doctor Who fanzine 'Enlightenment':

FLYBOY GOES IN ANY DIRECTION. Dashing and gorgeous Captain seeks guy or gal or... well anything really, to ride his tribophysical waveform macrokinetic extrapolator to the stars and back. Must be breathing with a pulse and, er, that's pretty much all that's necessary. Box 21135.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

I did get "The Oxford Historian", issue 2 (but not 1.) I know I've received another one since then, but can't remember what issue number it was. It arrived probably at least 9 months, or longer, after the previous one. I expect it has long since gone out for recycling. I'll look up donation details when they consent to send me another issue.

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

Factual correction: I wasn't made redundant; my contract came to an end. However, as the law now stands someone who has been on a fixed-term contract is entitled to severance pay, so the university still needs to go through the redundancy formalities.

Irrelevant to your post, but I was being historically irresponsible.

[king-pellinor.livejournal.com]

"I love "A Knight's Tale", and that takes huge liberties with history, too..."

Yeah, but the armour in that's cool, and that forgives all. And the music helps a lot too.

"Maybe I should wait until it's been shown before agonising over whether to like it or not."

A refreshingly pragmatic approach, coming from you :-)

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

Hey, now... *pouts*

And, anyway, it was you who went into apoplectic fury at the sight of the knitted "mail" in the trailer* - and at the sight of the recurve bow many months ago - so if anyone is weighing in to judge this in advance, it's you. :-P

* Okay, only after I deliberately recorded it so I could play it back to you and incite you to said apoplectic fury, I do admit that

[evilmissbecky.livejournal.com]

I get a call about once a year from my university begging asking for money. I can never afford it and I always feel bad. I suppose they can hear that regret in my voice because they dutifully call me back every year.

And what's this new Robin Hood of which you speak? Sounds...interesting!

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

It's a new 13 part BBC drama that's starting on Saturday. The BBC's website for it is here. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama/robinhood/index.shtml) The thing that prompted particular shallowness on my part is the cover of this week's Radio Times (http://www.radiotimes.com/). You need to scroll down a bit, to get to a small picture of the current issue on the right hand side. Clicking "what's in this issue" takes you to a flash page with a bigger version of the cover. I'm talking the baddie here, not the goodie.

[pellegrina.livejournal.com]

Mm, yes. The goodie looks like a right little designer-bestubbled mutant offspring of Ray Winstone and David Beckham, but the baddie has potential.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

*Chuckles* at your description of the Robin Hood chap. The Radio Times reviewer called him a "pipasqueak", and said she wanted to tell him to go and play in the garden with his toy arrows and let the grown-ups get on with things inside.

[evilmissbecky.livejournal.com]

Oh my! Yes, that is a nice picture!

A Knight's Tale

[sigisgrim.livejournal.com]

But, then, I love "A Knight's Tale", and that takes huge liberties with history, too...

I don't recall A Knight's Tale being in a specific period of history. So I would therefore place it squarely in the realm of folk tale. Which allows it to do what it did. Yes, it was great fun! *clap, clap, CLAP* *clap, clap, CLAP*

Re: A Knight's Tale

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

The presence of a young Geoffrey Chaucer, and the Black Prince, suggests that it's set in the later part of the reign of Edward III, roundabout the third quarter of the fourteenth century. However, as it used these names as 'props' as part of the dressing-up of modern manners in period clothing, and knows that it's taking liberties with historical fact.

Re: A Knight's Tale

[sigisgrim.livejournal.com]

the reign of Edward III

If I'm not mistaken, that is broadly when the Arthur stories were "updated". (We do have a copy of Mort d'Arthur, but I can't remember off hand where it is and I'm too idle to look for it.)

A Knight's Tale isn't trying to use Chaucer and the Black Prince as historical characters, they are, as you say, simply "props" in the dressing up that is the film.

Re: A Knight's Tale

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

Edward III reigned 1327 - 1377. Malory wrote in c. 1460s. Chretien de Troyes wrote chivalric Arthurian romances in the 12th century. It wasn't really that any one man "updated" Arthurian legends, more a case of them being constantly retold and changed over the centuries, to suit the society of the day. Edward III, though, was particularly interested to Arthurian legend. He had a Round Table, and instituted the Order of the Garter as a deliberate attempt to emulate romantic chivalric legends of old.

Re: A Knight's Tale

[sigisgrim.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the dates, I'm no good at remembering things like that (except, perhaps, the Battle of Bosworth). I didn't realise that Malory was 100 years after EIII.

In my defence I did say "broadly"!

Re: A Knight's Tale

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

Actually, the only reason I remember the rough dates for Malory is because one of my favourite books when I was young was "The Load of Unicorn", by Cynthia Harnett. This concerned a young apprentice of Caxton who was involved in acquiring the Malory manuscript to print.

Maybe I should worry. Much of the history I learnt as history I've forgotten, but if I learnt it through a historical novel, I've remembered it.

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

"A Kinght's Tale" was great - and I've just bought it on DVD :-)

[chainmailmaiden]

Drat, I was meaning to watch that program about Oxford to see what he said about ChCh. You've also reminded me that ChCH said they'd ring to extort funds from me at some point soon. I wouldn't mind giving them money if I had any, but I really feel I should pay the bank back before giving more money away. We let the answerphone pick up all calls anyway, so it'll be fairly easy to avoid them.

I've been looking forward to Robin Hood too, but I hadn't realised they were going with the whole woolly mail thing. I really don't know why they can't use the real thing, then people like me could make some extra cash in our spare time.

'A Knight's Tale' is on this Saturday night, I plan to have a store of drinks & snacks in ready :-)

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

ChCh last rang Creatrix at about 7pm on Sunday evening, which was a bit annoying.

'A Knight's Tale' is on this Saturday night

This *always* happens when I buy a DVD!!!

[chainmailmaiden]

It's actually occurred to me they might not have our latest phone number, I can't remember whether we gave it to them when we moved last year. Oh dear, I hope I don't loose sleep over that ;-)

We've had the same thing happen to us with DVD's quite frequently. As my MIL points out this wouldn't happen if we didn't insist on 'wasting' our money on them. We take no notice :-) I have pointed out to her though that for the last 3 years we've only ever used vouchers we've been given to buy DVD's & CD's, unless they have been presents to each other. (She has this idea we waste vast amounts of money on such things - even if we did, I would never consider it a 'waste') I still plan to buy 'A Knight's Tale' on DVD at some point, though it may drop down my list for a while after I see it again on Saturday.

[sigisgrim.livejournal.com]

*Looks at DVD collection* *Fails to find A Knight's Tale*

We must buy a copy for ourselves.

[the-marquis.livejournal.com]

Yes but with a dvd you can watch it when you like without intrusive adverts! We've seen our dvd 3 times or so and the films only a couple of years old.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

Me too. I must have seen it 3 or 4 times in a couple of years. I wasn't aware of loving the film when I watched it, but a little later, I found myself wanting to buy the DVD, and I kept finding myself putting it in and watching it. Whereas certain other films I watch once, think "I love this!", buy, and then never feel the urge to watch again.

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

We too have shelves full (well, one shelf double-banked) of DVDs that I loved, but can't really see myself watching again in the foreseeable future.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

He did go to ChCh. He mostly spoke about Cardinal Wolsley being too big for his boots, and designing something that was too big and ornate, and how it wasn't finished the way he'd planned. I can't remember too much, though. I was often too busy ranting about his sneering to actually listen to what he was saying.

[helflaed.livejournal.com]

I saw the Radio Times too- to be honest, I'd rather have a fur and fantasy Robin Hood rather than one which makes claims to accuracy and then dresses him up in a 14th century tunic with 5th century trousers and 15th century shoes. That would annoy me far more- Gladiator is full of that sort of thing, for example.

Mmmmmmmmmmm Captain Jack.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

I agree. I'd object more if they claiming to be accurate, but getting it wrong. They're so clearly not trying at all, that it doesn't matter half so much. Still, I might have to watch it when Pellinor's out, since he'll drive me mad by hissing and snarling whenever the knitted "mail" appears.

Actually, I never mind inaccurate costume too badly. What I do object to is inaccurate ideology and behaviour - Viking peasants spouting about Parliamentary democracy; medieval ladies going on about women's lib etc. Though I strongly suspect we're going to get that sort of thing in this, too. Ah well. I'll just tell myself it's folk tale/fantasy, and judge it on its own merits.

[the-marquis.livejournal.com]

Watching an advert tonight with Na'Lon I mentioned the issue and she thought that this Robin would be somewhat ahistorical, whilst looking to be a period costume drama in the same manner as Casanova. Certainly one clip (theatening villagers with tongue removal to get them to say something - duh!) seemed to show bad guys in some kind of leather raincoat! Well going by the visible lapels ;-)

We'll try it out and see if we like it, but bear in mind it's not 'period' unlike a large chunk of the audience methinks.

Re: A Knight's Tale

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

Casanova was pretty ahistorical, so in a way they might be much in the same vein, without the post-watershed sex, of couse...

[philmophlegm.livejournal.com]

I get pestered by Magdalen every year. If you give in, they print your name in the college record (a thick tome sent to all old members once a year), sorted by how much you give (£1-£999 for me) and your year of matriculation. This year, I'm two names down from the Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer. I did notice that the guy who ran one of the AD&D campaigns I played in (with Stephen) was in the 'more than £25,000' category. Good bonus I guess...

Actually one year, I got called by some Magdalen student begging for money. By a series of amazing concidences, he happened to then apply to KPMG for vacation work, in Plymouth office, with me his interview. I remembered his name, and I think I threw him somewhat when I produced the letter he had sent me a year earlier begging for money! I gave the guy the job, although in truth he wasn't that brilliant once he started.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

I received Merton's thick annual record thing (called "Postmaster") just the other day. I don't think I was listed in it as a donor. They do send me a Christmas card every year, though.

And irrelevant to the post, but it's something I always think when I see the phrase written... Someone really needs to write a fantasy novel featuring a Shadow Chancellor. He is obviously a very sinister baddy, who lurks in the darkness, and does dealings with wraiths and shadows. Or maybe he can be a baddy in a role-playing campaign...