Idle question

[ladyofastolat]

Can anyone think of an English place name (English, as in located in England, not America, Scotland, Wales, Ireland or Alpha Centauri) that consists of a single word with two syllables, in which the stress is on the second syllable, not the first. It came up in conversation (idle attempt to come up with an Isle of Wight version of "First we'll take Manhattan, then we'll take Berlin." It made sense at the time, honest. It grew naturally out of discussion of gleaming hidden lairs, doomsday machines and garlic) and we can't think of any at all. Scottish ones, yes, two word English ones - e.g. St Ives - yes, but that's all. Mind you, as soon as we started thinking, we could hardly think of any English place names at all, let alone ones that fitted the criteria, so that's not saying much.

Comments

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

adaese says, "Portslade."

[the-marquis.livejournal.com]

Oddly enough I was thinking that too!

[pellegrina.livejournal.com]

malaheed (who admittedly due to some fluke of dyslexia appears unable to hear the difference of stress until I pronounce it back at him) suggests a place name in Co. Durham but it's a foreigner by origin: Quebec which I think is locally pronounced Cue-BECK.

[philmophlegm.livejournal.com]

Penzance

[philmophlegm.livejournal.com]

Unless you're going to disqualify it on Mebyon Kernow grounds that Cornish ain't English...

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

Since English place names even in the non-Cornwall parts of the country derive from a mish-mash of languages, then it seems unfair to exclude Cornish names. It does seem to me as if Cornish names are more likely to have this stress pattern than names in other parts of England. Perhaps it's a Celtic thing? I could think of lots of Scottish names that had this stress pattern, too - though, if I remember correctly, linguistically Scottish Gaelic comes from a different branch of Celtic languages than Cornish.

[philmophlegm.livejournal.com]

Welsh, Breton and Cornish are one sub-group. Irish Gaelic, Scottish Gaelic and Manx are another.

[philmophlegm.livejournal.com]

Portlooe

[philmophlegm.livejournal.com]

Golant

[philmophlegm.livejournal.com]

Skegness

[philmophlegm.livejournal.com]

Dudley (at least as pronounced by the natives - doodLAY)

[inamac.livejournal.com]

Wincanton? Ascot? (Yes, I have been watching too much racing)

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

Wincanton is three syllables; I would place the stress on the first syllable of Ascot (but what about Ascott?)

[the-marquis.livejournal.com]

I was going to suggest Dorchester? But I daresay the "chester" bit makes two syllables by itself.

Hmmm, Horsham then, or maybe Brighton (bry-ton)

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

I'd pronounce both Horsham and Brighton with the stress on the first syllable - but, then, I'm not local. Am I wrong? It's like how people from Newcastle seem to put the stress on the second syllable, while everyone else puts the stress on the first.

[the-marquis.livejournal.com]

Maybe its the way I "hear" it in my head that's at fault, so having tried saying them aloud a few times I'm in the wrong on Brighton (which comes outs as Bry t'n). Horsham though I'm not sure about, I'm pretty sure it's HorSH'M (rather than SHAM) but maybe the stress is even over the name as a whole.

[segh.livejournal.com]

Blackheath.

[evilmissbecky.livejournal.com]

Of course I'm fascinated by this. I'll never forget our discussion of how to pronounce that frozen treat you eat from a cone. ICE cream or ice CREAM. Such little things, and yet they reveal so much about the way our language has developed. :-)

[hmmm-tea.livejournal.com]

Carlisle
Newcastle
Blackpool

[muuranker.livejournal.com]

I am almost certainly mis-remembering the local accent, but does Lowestoft fit the bill? It would not fit into the song, taking a long time to say. Althorpe, as pronounced by the Spencers (as opposed to as pronounced by the-likes-of-me) too appears to be at least equally stressed (or perhaps I am over-sensitive to the 'throp').

Yiewsley almost certainly doesn't, but I have no idea how it is pronounced. May even have four syllables. Ifold and Ewelme fall into the same category (although I'm pretty certain they have two syllables).

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

I would have said Althorpe was stressed on the first syllable, even when Al-trup; but I'm not sure.

[bunn.livejournal.com]

If I were writing an English version of "First we'll take Manhattan, then we'll take Berlin." I'd forget the single-word thing and go for King's Lynn on the grounds that it would scan and the space is not pronounced anyway.

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

First we'll take King's Langley, then we'll take King's Lynn?

[philmophlegm.livejournal.com]

From what other people have posted, there's obviously a wider variety of pronunciations of placenames than you would think. I personally can't see any way of pronouncing "Newcastle" in less than three syllables, "Carlisle" to me has equal stress on the two syllables, surely "Blackpool" is "BLACKpool", "Horsham" is "HORshum", "Ascot" is "ASScott" or "ASScutt" etc.

On a related matter, random has just suggested that in the local accent, Yeovil can often be "YoVULL".

[bunn.livejournal.com]

Re Newcastle, I have heard 'Barnstaple' though ostentibly a 3-syllable word, pronounced as almost one and a half, so:

BAAAAAAARRRNsul

[bunn.livejournal.com]

... also in (North) Devon dialect, place names are almost never used without the prefix 'to' as in "She lives over to BAAAAAARNsul" thus ensuring that no name can really be truly monosyllabic.

[philmophlegm.livejournal.com]

Janners say that too.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

I'd agree with these - except that I'd definitely say "Car-LISLE".

As for Newcastle, I mentioned it initially not as a two syllable word, but as a word where locals pronounce it differently from non-locals. I, non local, would say... well, actually, I said yesterday that I'd put the stress on the first syllable, but I think I actually stress the first and second almost equally, though with the first syllable stressed slightly more: NEW-CASS-ull. Pellinor says it very definitely as "New-CASS-ull"

[helflaed.livejournal.com]

Pretty much anything ending in by or thorpe. I blame the Danes...

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

Really? With the -by names I can think of, I, at least, would stress the first syllable: WHITby, GRIMSby. I think it's the same with -thorpe. I'd say SCUNthorpe... (Hmm.. Gone blank on any other -thorpe place name, and can't find any in a quick scan of the Danelaw areas. I bet I'll remember hundreds after posting this.)

[helflaed.livejournal.com]

Igrew up just outside Grimsby and the stress was definately on the second sylable when pronouncing scandinavian place names. Maybe it was a local thing.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

Not two syllables, but I feel this conversation would be the poorer without a mention of Devizes.