A handful

[ladyofastolat]

According to the local paper's website "less than a handful" of thefts happened at the Bestival. How big is a handful, I wonder. Can you actually have less than a handful, or would "less than a handful" otherwise be called "one." Or does this mean a theft of something so titchy-tiny that you can't even hold it in one hand without it slipping through your fingers? Theft of an atom, perhaps? On the other hand, if you stole one single elephant, fitting it in your hand would be challenging.

What's bigger: a handful, or a few? How much bigger than "only a few" is "quite a few"? What range of numbers are covered by "one or two"? How much bigger than "one or two" is "two of three?" I have to admit that, to me, "a couple" probably actually goes up to 4, and, depending on context, "millions" might start at about 20, as does "a million and one." If you're dealing with a subset of the entire population of the world, I suppose a quantity can simultaneously be "millions" and "only a few".

Perhaps I should get back to work...

Comments

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

Could "less than a handful" of thefts include an infinite amount of cyber-theft, which you can't actually hold in your hand?

Do we get to see you up here next month, BTW?

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

I keep forgetting to talk about it with Pellinor, but I doubt we'll be able to make it this year. We're away the weekend after that, and I'll be working several weekends in October, and we're also trying to work out how on earth to fit in a visit by my parents that month, too. We'd love to be able to come, but when you live on an island, there's no such thing as popping over just for a day.

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

Oh well - it's a shame, but I do understand, given that we only have two free weekends between now and then. If you're ever passing (M1 Junction 12), do feel free to pop in.

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

And this means I'll have to send back the crate of beer that's just arived ...

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

Isn't a 'handful' five? /prosaic

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

Is it? I'd always assumed that it referred to an amount one could reasonably hold in one hand, not to the number of fingers.

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

I've checked OED, and the earliest mentions are indeed:

1. a. A quantity that fills the hand; as much or many as the hand can grasp or contain.
a700 Epinal Gloss. 645 Manticum: handful beouuas [Corpus Gl. beowes]. c1000 Lamb. Ps. cxxv[i]. 6 (Bosw.) Berende handfulla heora. c1000 ÆLFRIC Lev. ii. 2 Nime hira ane handfulle smideman. a1225 Ancr. R. 254 An honful {ygh}erden. 1382 WYCLIF Gen. xxxvii. 7, I wenede vs to bynden hondfullis in the feelde..and {ygh}oure hondfullis stondynge al aboute to loute myn hondful.

However, later on...

5. slang. A five years' prison sentence.
1930 J. LAIT Big House i. 6 A five-year sentence is a ‘handful’. 1953 M. GILBERT Fear to Tread ix. 118 He's had a two-stretch... He'll collect a handful next time. 1966 New Society 31 Mar. 22/2 Going up for a handful (receiving a sentence of five years' imprisonment).

I'm sure that I've seen 'a handful' in other contexts meaning 'five', and this was what I was brought up to think it meant anyway.

Alternatively, wellinghall and I are just a pair of old lags...

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

Interesting. I've never come across it meaning five. Or, rather, I've never taken it to mean five when I've come across it - perhaps erroneously so. However, I do now have that "I've got a handful of songs to sing you" song solidly stuck in my head. Unfortunately, I can't remember that programme at all, despite still being able to sing the theme song right through, so don't know if they sang exactly five songs each episode.

[bunn.livejournal.com]

Me neither. I'd take it to mean as many of whatever it is that would fit in a hand, which would vary depending on the size of the item.

But perhaps as it occurs in a policemanly context in your original text, that's what they mean?

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

I wonder whether it means 'five' in any other contexts? I was surprised to see the specific meaning restricted to prisons in the OED. I didn't mention the equestrian definition, either, where a hand is four inches.

[segh.livejournal.com]

The "Mighty Handful" is five Russian composers.

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

And there's "A helpful handful - 5 necessary judo books", at http://www.mokurendojo.com/2008/09/helpful-handful-5-necessary-judo-books.html

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

With my prosaic hat on, I do tend to agree with that.

[kargicq.livejournal.com]

Yes, I had always assumed that "a handful" meant "five," but have no idea where I got that from.

[phoebesmum.livejournal.com]

I'm trying to decide whether it should be 'fewer than a handful'. Only if a handful is quantifiable, I think, which I believe we have decided it isn't. HELP ME, I ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT THESE THINGS.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

I have to confess that I wondered exactly the same thing, concluded the same thing, and had the same "why on earth do I care about these things?" moment.

[abracah.livejournal.com]

Don't you love it when your brain just runs off on a tangent and you can't reign it back in!! Its like a mini vacation!

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

In which case, my mind must spend its entire life sunning itself on tropical beaches, since I think "tangent" is its default setting. ;-)

[sigisgrim.livejournal.com]

Moving this idea along, what is the duration of a period of time which is defined in relation to now as soon?

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

Totally context dependent, I think, and meaning anything from a few seconds to a few million or billion years (if we're talking something that might happen "soon" in astronomical time.)

On a similar line, what's the maximum amount of time that can be assumed by the phrase "in a minute." If someone says "I'll do it in just a sec" can we assume that it will be done sooner than if they said "I'll do it in a minute"?

[segh.livejournal.com]

My husband, and most of our Greek friends, think that "recently" means "any time less than a thousand years ago" if that helps at all.

[kargicq.livejournal.com]

My students find it amusing that "recently" for me tends to mean "since the Scientific Revolution." For some reason this was especially the case in America...

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

In America, they think 200 years is a long time. In England, we think 200 miles is a long way.

We have seen the oldest brick building in Monterey. I've lived in a brick-built house that was twice as old.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

When my Mum's on local museum duty, she's particularly fond of telling Americans that the local church "isn't particularly old, since it only dates back to the fifteenth century", then listening to their cries of horror.

And when evilmissbecky visited, we took particular delight in seeking out the oldest, most wooden beamed, most uneven floored pub we could find... that was called "The New Inn."

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

Your mention of "work" brought back something I had been meaning to tell you about for ages (which - see sigisgrim's comment above - is another interesting one).

When we were in Orkney, I was reading a collection of comments from Mass Observation diaires from 1945 - 53. There was a contemporary advert for Ovaltine, aimed at librarians; saying that they had such busy lives nowadays, what with stocking the shelves and so on, that they needed lots of energy.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

*chuckles* How odd. I wonder if there were similar adverts aimed at every other profession, too.

[nilsigma.livejournal.com]

A handful is presumably less than a hatful but more than a teaspoonful. But you would have though the police would refer to a Panda-ful or a Cell-full or a Tardis-full.

At least they will have the thieves footprints! 'Stop anyone with muddy shoes Constable'

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

The idea of a police chase while wading through six inches of mud is strangely appealing... ;-)

And since a hand can fit into a pocket, presumably a pocketful is just a little more than a handful.