No, I really shouldn't read forums

[ladyofastolat]

Up early, ill, with a headache and a cough, and unable to concentrate on any sustained reading, so what do I do? I surf around internet forums. Why do I do this to myself? Why? It always leaves me cross and fuming.

Many people seem to be incapable of distinguishing opinion from fact, and the Internet really seems to exacerbate this. So many "discussions" follow such predictable lines:

"X is the worst movie ever"
"No, you moron! You've got no taste. X is brilliant!"

I find it quite scary when I encounter someone who is so utterly sure that they are right that they have managed to come up with a reason to dismiss absolutely all disagreement:

"Anyone who disagrees has no sense of humour"
"You're only saying that because you're racist/homophobic/sexist"
"No right-thinking person can think otherwise."
"Anyone who disagrees is a fascist who is trying to suppress my freedom of speech"
"Anyone who claims to like this book is clearly lying, out of desire to seem intelletual."
"Anyone who likes this book is thick and ill-educated and has no taste"
"Anyone who indulges in this hobby is a sad loser who has failed to grow up."
"Anyone who likes this band is just jumping on the bandwagon like a sheep."
"Of course, if you were a true fan, you would think…"
"Anyone who disagrees with me has been conditioned by the patriarchal society, poor dears, and thus their disagreement only supports my case."
"Anyone who thinks otherwise is still in thrall to the devil and sin and thus in need of conversion."

This is one of the reasons why I will never really be involved in Internet fandom. I did used to be involved in one fandom, but that was ten years ago, when Internet use was much more limited, and debates tended to be a bit more civilised. Still, even then I was very much on the fringes. I couldn't deal with this whole "Worst Episode Ever", "No! You fool! It was the Best Episode Ever" thing. I would happily debate the reasons why I liked an episode, or the things that I felt were flawed. I could discuss character motivations, and all sorts of other stuff. But by the end of my time in that fandom, it was getting more into flame war territory, as people staked out their little preferences, and rational, reasoned debate was rapidly becoming the minority.

I have occasionally dipped my toe into large modern fandoms, and have usually run screaming within minutes, upset by the sheer vitriol that some fans cast at other fans who disagree with their preferences. "X and Y are made for each other. Anyone who can't see that is blind." "No! That is so wrong. X and A are obviously in love. X and Y together is just sick." In any book or film that I love, there are characters I'm in love with, and others that I dislike. What I cannot comprehend is how some people can confuse preferences like this with self-evident truth, and want to shout at other people who disagree.

Perhaps I am being over-pedantic. It has sometimes been pointed out that I can very seldom be drawn to say if a book or film is good or bad, confining myself (usually) to merely saying if I enjoyed it, or not. When Empire magazine asked all its readers to vote for their top ten in the "greatest films ever made," I refused to vote, on the grounds that there was no way on earth I could answer this question. Even if I had seen every film ever made, all I could truthfully tell them was my ten favourites, not the ten greatest.

Maybe I'm wrong here. Maybe, in real life, "It was really good!" merely means "I liked it," and "How could you, you fool? It was awful!" just means "I didn't like it, but am making a conversational opener so we can have a friendly chat about it." Maybe I'm wrong to react against such statements.

But I don't think I'm being entirely pedantic. Internet forums are a rather extreme and distorted version of reality, but I don't think they're too far off. I think too many people can't see the difference between subjective and objective; between opinion and fact. If it leads to a light-hearted discussion on the merits of the latest big movie, then it's not a problem, but a similar attitude can also lead to wars, bombings and violence.

Comments

[rustica.livejournal.com]

"Anyone who claims to like this book is clearly lying, out of desire to seem intelletual."

I've seen this one used against LotR. It made me laugh. A lot :D.

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

I'm very much with you here... in Doctor Who fandom there are many of us who express nostalgia for the days of the fanzine, when debate was slower and moderated and more considered; but a glance back at old fanzines shows that there was a lot of vitriol there too.

[bunn.livejournal.com]

Is this not very similar to the debates I remember from school though? #

"You like Don Johnson? Eeeeerrrr! HE'S YUCK!"
"you like Boy George? EEEERRRRR! YOU MUST BE GAY!!!'

I think such things are to be expected in forums with younger members. Though I agree it's very disturbing when you come across grown men and women 'debating' in that way. I hope that this is just flame-war phenomenon, and that they wouldn't actually have the nerve to talk that way in person...

My impression is that the move from unmoderated Usenet to mostly-moderated web-based media has helped a bit.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

I think you're right in that it's particularly true in forums with younger members. Back in my early days of X-Files fandom, it certainly seemed to me that most of the people involved were adults. Internet use was still a fairly minority thing. Now online fandom is flooded with 14 year olds... And while some 14 year olds are very articulate and put adults to shame, a lot... well, aren't.

Though several of the posters who were particularly annoying me this morning were clearly middle aged or elderly, judging from other things they said, so it's certainly not confined to the young.

[the-marquis.livejournal.com]

From my point of view I suspect that a lot of fandom/fan-activity online isn't about reasoned, or even informed, debate (after all then you can have a 'conversation' wherein people argue worst/best and some that thought it bad learn that the people who liked it saw other things going on in the plot or between the characters and all develop an understanding of the writers' intentions and skills that informs their viewing), but rather about lonely people trying to find other people who think and feel the way they do so that they aren't alone. Thus they react badly to 'the others - who think otherwise' who post into the same arena and it all becomes personal, attacking, heated unpleasant and childish.

That's only my opinion of course, and I think some of the quicker grumpier reactions come from emotional reactions rather than thinking things through, which ties in with the 14 year olds out there (who maybe haven't learned the difference yet) and from my experience a lot of people in the western world haven't grown up, they've merely got older.

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

*ongoing get-better-soon hugs*